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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:51 am 
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Last edited by MagicRockMoola on Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:00 am 
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@MagicRockMoola: That picture was rather tasteless.

@Essen: Agreed with that, but I don't think SEGA will ever be like Valve in that regard, unfortunately.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:19 am 
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A good little farewell caper that, successful beyond my wildest dreams, and still in line with my philosophy that information should always come first. No matter what, haters gonna hate, but the support I've seen on various sites for the release of these codes is... nice, I suppose.

I believe we did the right thing, and no scare-stories about how we have ruined PSP2 forever because we spoiled the magical panacea to all of Phantasy Star's ills in the west will convince me otherwise.

If nothing else, a decent evening's entertainment. I think I can be satisfied with that. So much focus on the messenger, when in reality all people will remember is the message. Oh, and Ruby, since we can ask for your cooperation... what's the situation on the DLC?

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:28 am 
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From PSOW
RubyEclipse wrote:
I don't have any concrete enough answers one way or the other on the DLC, but have been asking and I'll update you guys as soon as I hear something solid enough to pass on. :)

And that's at least the answer I was looking for. Currently no, but a push is being made to get it. I figured the game would be able to support DLC if needed.
I'd like to know if the Mimic Doll still nukes rooms like in JP, though....

Though I wanna know if the game is 100% completable without the DLC. Meaning all log entries show 100% (weapons, costumes, enemies) and all titles are obtainable

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:35 am 
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essen wrote:
You know, I don't think I hurt anyone. Everyone who already had the game wasn't going to buy it again because you posted some codes in vague places. Most people were going to get the codes from gamefaqs anyway. It would be ridiculous (from a business point of view) to give up on those plans just because the people who already have the games have the codes. So you really should continue with this plan, and release the codes gradually for everyone else, and raise awareness of everyone who didn't buy the game yet.

If you don't, I've won. And I would be winning simply because people with bad business practices will get less money to continue fucking with their customers. Not that I'm an idealist or anything, I know how the world works. I simply don't support that kind of practices and had the possibility to make a point, and so did I.

Don't worry too much about the actual community. Even if SEGA doesn't release a game in the west. If the game is good, there'll always be people to translate it and bring it to others. And if it's an online game, there'll be private servers (you know, like schthack, where you played before). If you release it but put locks all over the place for your own purposes (promotional items, preventing the second hand market sales, the completely useless GameGuard that actually do more harm than good, whatever else), there'll always be people to unlock it. You can't ever stop that.

On the other hand, SEGA is only bringing games in the west because it benefits them. And they will always act like this, it's a business. If you really want better support, the only thing you can do is to show them that actually taking care of customers brings money in. Promotional material isn't taking care of customers though. If you want to take care of your customers, support the community projects like PSUPedia, help bring back the shutdown servers, and hey maybe you can even arrange some form of contract and get money back through cash shop on the community-ran servers like schthack or upcoming PSU servers, all with almost no work involved other than collecting extra money. And maybe you can even try to find a few good out of many sonic fan-games and help publish it as an independent work while making money (on that, your link on your corporate site doesn't work anymore). That's many things doable with very small budget.

I know I may sound crazy, but that's what a good business would do. Ever heard of Valve? Notice all the independent projects they've bought or recruited? Yeah. Copy that, and western SEGA will be both loved and make big money.


I agree, this really shouldn't stop those promotions. Unless the other parties involved thought otherwise? I don't see why they would.

But, I really wouldn't have used Valve as an example.


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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:41 am 
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Isn't Valve a great example of community handling? Okay they have Steam NOW, but even before they were very straightforward with their community.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:49 am 
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I agree that you should not have published that (that you would extract them for your own use and that of your friends is another story).

I'm not sure you all realise how many people in the community actually enjoy having Ruby and other staff members release those codes, and you just selfishly ruined the fun for a lot of people.
And you're the same people who complain about SoA not doing enough, good job, here -- and don't tell me releasing codes for items is not enough on their part, because then I could say you're never satisfied, and we'd be lost in a loop.
Besides, you should not extrapolate what you want to what every member of the community wants, if you're not happy with how things are handled, there is no reason to ruin the fun of others.

That's not going to change what I think of you, I like most people here, but this was very selfish and unsurprisingly egotistical.

If you have time to extract data from the game, extract useful data, like drops and drop rates; you know something that would benefit all the community, since that's the point of PSUpedia, to begin with. Because this kind of achievement is merely attention whoring. Well, at least it worked.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:52 am 
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Hrith wrote:
If you have time to extract data from the game, extract useful data, like drops and drop rates; you know something that would benefit all the community.


This benefits the community because now people can get the items they wanted that were on the disc in the first place.

What essen did is not so terrible as you make it out to be. I don't understand why you are supporting people so desperate that even though the codes are out and being posted in many places they still want to go through with the original plan.


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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:57 am 
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Hrith wrote:
I'm not sure you all realise how many people in the community actually enjoy having Ruby and other staff members release those codes, and you just selfishly ruined the fun for a lot of people.
No one made them click on the topic marked HEY LOOK ALL THE CODES ARE IN HERE.

Don't be silly, Keg.


And if you think this is attention whoring in any way, you're really barking up the wrong tree.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:00 am 
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We've harmed a few people. That's the job of PSUPedia after all. But really you're making the vocal complainers bigger than they are. Everyone on gamefaqs was grateful. PSOW people were either thankful or the exact opposite; not surprising considering that's where SEGA fanboys go. But guess what? All those thousands of people who didn't post anything were likely thankful too! Yeah. Otherwise they'd have posted, people like to complain. Hey someone even registered on PSOW to thank us for releasing them.

Now I have nothing against SoA. By now everyone knows the problem is SoJ, aka SEGA in my previous posts in this topic. Clearly the current politic for the western market is to spend as few as possible to make as much as possible. It has always been, but it's a lot increased now. First there's been many laying offs. Then there's all that content removed from PSP2 (even PSP1 had voices!). And then there's the obviously cheap translation. All this do not draw a good image of SEGA's western releases.

In the real world, you have to spend money to get a good value in return. SEGA does its best to spend as few as possible in the western market. They get what they get.

I'm not extracting useful data simply because I'm already busy reviving the dead PC servers. But feel free to work on it instead of doing nothing but complaining, all my tools are available, including the source code.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:09 am 
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essen wrote:
In the real world, you have to spend money to get a good value in return. SEGA does its best to spend as few as possible in the western market. They get what they get.


That's very true, but then I thought about how they spent $70 Million on Shenmue.

Great game but with sales it didn't turn out too great and it's known as one of the biggest failures of all time.

Looks like they suck even when they spend money


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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:11 am 
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essen wrote:
We've harmed a few people. That's the job of PSUPedia after all.
And this time, we didn't even need to resort to fanslations to harm the community.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:17 am 
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If only SEGA used Espio as a translator, their localizations would be greatly improved. And I'm sure he'd be happy to do them cheap as long as he can post everything to PSUP too.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:20 am 
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essen wrote:
If only SEGA used Espio as a translator, their localizations would be greatly improved. And I'm sure he'd be happy to do them cheap as long as he can post everything to PSUP too.

That'd be pretty awesome, we'd finally get proper translations after so many years of getting botched localization attempts.
We can dream I guess. :P

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:25 am 
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RubyEclipse wrote:
Grab your popcorn buckets.

I registered just to point out how ridiculous your comments were, Essen. You're not 'sticking it to the man' as you'd like to believe, so don't fool yourself into thinking you're a glorious freedom fighter here to show SEGA what's really important. Hacking to release the codes hurts solely the efforts I was trying to put together to help promote the game here in the west, and that's it.

The 'they did this to avoid spending extra money' argument is also out the window. We spent money just localizing the unlockable items in the first place - not even touching on licensing or partnership approvals. (Before you say it: it's more expensive than you think.) I also don't get money to buy ads: that part doesn't touch on my job. My job is to do the most I can with what I'm given, and in this case, one facet of that was the codes.

I realize the viewpoint that exists after seeing the difference between the JP-US servers for PSU (and even PSO). It's a battle we (and now, especially Edward) fight every day. But I also don't think 3-4+ codes a week, as was the plan, is anything near 'drip-feeding'.

If you want to see SEGA spend more money advertising and supporting PSP2, we need to show them that it's worth spending money on. I was hoping to prove that with the awareness we could create via the cost of localizing these items alone. I think we still can create it in other ways, but stuff like this certainly doesn't help.

Anyways, that's my rant/response. You may now follow this-up with some obligatory 'u mad?' quotes and popcorn bucket gif images. :)

Its kind of hard to believe that someone that works for Sega would rant on a third party site to try to prove some strangers his point of view, talk about very unprofessional. I honestly think that having a release of codes is nice and all, but you can't expect users to not try to figure this out on their own and share with everyone, that's just plain common sense and getting upset over it only makes yourself and the company look bad.

And to point out, I actually disagree with your logic fail, I ,as a consumer(cause that's what we are, not customers), feel that I shouldn't be the one proving anything to Sega, that actually it should be the other way around, Sega should be showing the consumers that it does care and supports its community that has been driveling on a thread these past few years. When PSP2 came out, Sega should be the one putting out ads, commercials, etc to get the game heard and seen. Promotional things should be going on instead of short changing the rest of the world that doesn't live in Japan. If you're going to do stuff for Japan, the western world should get it as well, what Sega is doing is wrong to us and a lot of the community is getting fed up with excuses.

The content gap was quite large in PSU when the PC/PS2 servers were up, I don't think giving up on those was the best idea and now even on the 360, the content gap still isn't being closed and its only a matter of time before no one is going to be able to really enjoy what could of been a really great and fun game to its full capacity cause it too will be abandoned. If Sega wants us to really support them, then they need to take the first step and start doing their job as a company and support the community it is aiming its games at.


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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:26 am 
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I just wanna mention how XSeed is handling the localization of Ys: The Oath in Felghana for PSP. The PC version has been fan translated for a while. So XSeed went and paid the fan translator for his work and used that as the basis of their localization. A majority of the work was already done, they just had to do some editing work (the fan translation was mostly unedited) and translate the few new things added to the PSP.

I think a few light novels have been localized for the US in similar fashion. Outsourcing translation to fans is all the rage these days!

EDIT: Oh and I think XSeed is doing something similar for Ys I & II Chronicles. There's been translations for the PC versions (which the PSP versions are based on) available for years now

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:36 am 
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Riguel wrote:
consumer(cause that's what we are, not customers)

Ahah, good point, english fail +1.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:16 am 
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lol hidden jokes in some of the passwords. I didn't bother parsing others to see if there was anything silly, but all the Vocaloid codes start with 3939 (or Mi-ku Mi-ku in Japanese)

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:33 am 
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Typical, this would all happen during a time period where I have to sleep early

I demand compensation! Perhaps in the form of some kind of DLC

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:37 am 
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You could have done DLC promotions instead, that way we get actual new content to make us happy, and Sega gets money.

Money that can be used for localizing PSP2 Infinity. The right way.


I'm personally glad these codes have been released since my friends and I have been getting impatient waiting for some of these, and now we have them and can enjoy the game just that much more. There's nothing stopping you from still releasing these codes the way you intended since that will still draw in people who don't have the game.

Bit of a subject change here, the only way for those of us here in the west to be happy with the Phantasy Star franchise again is to actually get the exact same thing Japan has. I shouldn't have to learn Japanese to play the real version of a game that has all the content and DLC while the localized version is a half-assed version of what the original was. If money at SoA is an issue, see if SoJ can assist with getting the games localized properly. You see people preferring to play the Japanese versions of these games now because they are tired of missing out on content. Keep this up and no one will want to buy the localized release because it's lacking what made the original so great.
You'll make more money if we stop getting treated like a beaten foster child. You have to spend money to make money, if you don't put EVERYTHING into the localized game and advertise it, nobody will know about the game and no one will buy it. We need TV commercials, website ads, the works. If you can't put out the money for an advertisement then you'll never get the massive sales games like Final Fantasy has gotten. Wanna know why Pokemon is so popular and a multi-billion dollar franchise? Nintendo advertised the crap out of it before the games came out.

I understand collaborations are a pain in the ass to get localized, but at the very least give us the option for DLC, everything that Japan has access to, and full voice acting. The collaborations are nice and all but the main thing that PSP2 had going for it was that there would be new missions being added and DLC, which we won't be seeing. PSU can only last so much longer on the life support it's on right now, which leaves PSP2 Infinity and PSO2 for you guys to actually get right this time. I have hope still, but quite frankly I'm amazed that those of us dealing with private servers are running the games better than Sega has been for us here in the west. I was there for when PSO was neglected and brought back to life by the fans who didn't want to see it die, same is happening for PSU now. It's really saying something when the community is doing a better job. For free even.

I'd continue the wall but it's 2:30 am and I have work tomorrow, so whatever sounds odd I apologize for, but I am being sincere when I want to see us not getting the shaft with an inferior version of the games. I will buy 20 copies once we get a Phantasy Star that isn't a cheap imitation of the original Japanese version.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:02 pm 
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Seems like the fun is drawing to a close. A shame, I was quite enjoying the high-handed, arrogant attempts to blacken our names both here and elsewhere. Those cheap insults did provide a bit of entertainment, but, alas, they were as insubstantial as the morning mist.

To the majority who have been happy to see the codes released, enjoy them =)

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:34 pm 
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I quite honestly don't see how people are seeing Ruby's post as talking down to the general community. There are only two things I'm seeing from his posts:

1) He's responding to PARTICULAR posts, namely the claims that releasing this will force Sega to improve (as if this will actually impact their decisions when it won't) and the responses to his post.

2) The only thing he says that got impacted was his attempts to market the game (which is what he is, NOT the person responsible for DLC decisions, etc). He never said anything about this destroying the game and such.

I normally lurk here and respect the board, but it seems a bit much that people are claiming Ruby's posts were nothing but derision at the password releases.


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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:02 pm 
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He made a rant because we prevented him from doing his job properly. Unfortunately only a fool would think his job is to support the community. It's well evidenced by the lack of presence in-game, the lack of presence in the official boards and the rest of the community (except PSOW where his fanboys reside), the lack of answers given whenever an issue arise with the games SEGA is supposed to support, and more. He may be called a community manager, but the only thing he does is marketing. The password items are just a marketing tool to get more people to buy the game. The various item giveaways are just quick and dirty tricks to get some more news posts about SEGA. And it's not even going to do much. Think the passwords are going to raise awareness? So far two have been released: one on a PS fansite, another there: http://www.siliconera.com/tag/phantasy-star-portable-2/ - notice all the posts already about PSP2 alone? Yep, readers already know that game. Expect more of the same with the other codes.

But that's not what his job title says he should do. Why would a community manager try to grow his community if his community is completely frustrated by getting fucked over repeatedly year after year? Saw what happened with PSOBB? With PSU? PSU PC people at least had other alternatives for online RPG games, but 360 people don't, it's either that or FF11. So you have the choice between getting bored to death or getting fucked over repeatedly. So 360 people stop caring and just play on and off, which keeps the game alive but under quite bad conditions. Bloodf can tell you more about that: http://psu.system11.org/blog/

Of course his job is more than PS, but PS can't succeed if nothing is done to solve the community problems, because until then SEGA will keep getting the reputation of fucking over with their customers. And the SONIC games fiasco increase that issue. Heh, going slightly off topic here, but Edward is supposed to handle PSU specifically, and you never see him in-game, tickets don't get answered at all either, and gold farmers use a 3 year old glitch to generate S+10s out of thin air with the JP developers doing nothing to solve that. The current western PS community is largely ignored, it can't grow until people are listened to and their problems get resolved. Doing a marketing stunt to get new gullible people while others quit raging isn't the way to go.

I don't really care about SEGA improving. I know they won't. I do care about SEGA getting even more money to continue with this mascarade with the next games. The SONIC life cycle doesn't apply only to SONIC games, PS also get the shaft, albeit in a slightly different way.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:22 pm 
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Actually no. His "rant" was more-or-less a direct response to anything YOU said - not the actual fact that the codes were released, but what you actually typed afterwards - and not once in his post do I see him actually "ranting". In fact, his little comment about how it affected him was ONE SENTENCE in his initial post.

Also, keep in mind that you were the person who started making all the Ruby insults first and he only responded after you were claiming about how this release would somehow affect Sega's marketing decisions in the future; he didn't just randomly come on and start a tirade as many people seem to imply.

I have a question for you: If you know that Ruby's a community manager - as in, not responsible for the decisions about DLC and additional PSU content - then why did you try taunting him in your first post about the slow release of new PSU content? Also, the passcodes were always intended to artificially lengthen the game. That was their intended purpose in BOTH versions of the game, so I don't see why you suddenly blame Ruby for the slow release of them (and I HIGHLY doubt that the higher-ups would appreciate him going on release day "Lol here have all the codes").

I respect your efforts in obtaining all the codes and applaud you on doing something that others had major difficulty in doing. I also know you're enthusiastic about the games just as much as anyone else here. However, most of the insults and mockery I've seen in this topic came from you and a few other posters, not Ruby, and I wanted to call you out on it. It's all fine and good you did this and yes you made many people happy with the codes, but all the bashing that came from you guys was rather silly.


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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:36 pm 
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The passwords are a marketing tool, not an artificial way to lengthen the game. They're low level equipment for new players that this marketing would bring in. I think it's pretty clear it's not the same as with PSU online where they drip-feed the content because there isn't any.

I didn't really insult Ruby, all I'm saying is that since his job is to be a community manager, he shouldn't be doing the job of a marketing drone, but he should instead try to keep the existing community together instead of trying to bring in people to make up for the ones who left in rage. And if SEGA doesn't let him do that, then the next best solution is to quit and to look for a better company. The alternative is to become a tool used by SEGA to whip the community over and over, which is pretty much what he has become.

I'm sure you'll say that if he quits then things won't improve. While true it's also pretty clear that what he is doing for the community today doesn't work: community very mad.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:38 pm 
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Deiser wrote:
His "rant"

Why "rant"? He admitted it was a rant in his first post, and I think the guy knows better than you whether he is ranting or not. The completely unnecessary comments about grabbing popcorn buckets and posting 'u mad' only back up my point, those are just not things you say when you try to have a reasonable dialog. Not to mention the fact that he's basically ridiculing essen in the first post, and this is very obvious to everyone except yourself, apparently.

Oh, and since no one seems to have mentioned it, before he posted his self-professed rant here he was busy on PSOW trashing us as 'cheaters' (which is a lie) and 'the 1% who want to ruin it for everyone else' (another complete lie). He was giving as good as he got.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:46 pm 
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So in a time when jobs are incredibly hard to come by, you actually think it's reasonable to quit "and find a better company"? Really?

Besides that though, the JP passcodes were released over time as well. You're right, it's a marketing tool... which ARTIFICIALLY LENGTHENS THE GAME. It's very much like how Dragon Quest 9 had unlock keys for content already on the cart. Marketing tools are there to both garner attention for a game AND to keep players playing the game, and the passwords are there for the latter reason.

Let me ask this then of you: If you were hired by Sega as the community manager (and don't try to weasel out by saying "Oh I'd never even apply"), how would you go about keeping the community together while also making sure that you are not fired? Keep in mind that releasing all codes at once would probably not fly well with higher-ups, and that trying to do things that Sega might specifically tell you not to do will probably get you in trouble, if not fired.

So please, tell me how you'd handle the situation in such a way that people wouldn't whine yet you would actually still have a job AND actually do a good job on both representing hte game AND the community.


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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:51 pm 
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I'd say that dripfeeding promotional codes for items already on the disc in a thread on a fansite is hardly a means of promoting the game insomuch as a means of promoting the site on which they're posted.

So to answer in part above I'd at least try to liase with bigger and more general gaming sites to get the word out and release the codes through promotional deals or something.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:57 pm 
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If I can't refuse the job or quit, I'd quickly get fired. I'm not going to sell my soul just to get a few bucks every months.

It's also a big illusion that you need to have a job to make a living. If you don't find a job, create it yourself. While true that the current economical situation makes it hard to find jobs in existing companies, it's actually quite good times for people who create their own opportunities, at least in Europe.

You're also mistaken in thinking SEGA cares about lengthening the game. They don't get any more money by lengthening PSP2. Especially considering most of those items will be worthless to first buyers by the time they're released through proper channels.

Anyway I've explained in great lengths my position and my reasons. Feel free to misinterpret or dislike.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:57 pm 
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Mewn wrote:
Deiser wrote:
His "rant"

Why "rant"? He admitted it was a rant in his first post, and I think the guy knows better than you whether he is ranting or not. The completely unnecessary comments about grabbing popcorn buckets and posting 'u mad' only back up my point, those are just not things you say when you try to have a reasonable dialog. Not to mention the fact that he's basically ridiculing essen in the first post, and this is very obvious to everyone except yourself, apparently.

Oh, and since no one seems to have mentioned it, before he posted his self-professed rant here he was busy on PSOW trashing us as 'cheaters' (which is a lie) and 'the 1% who want to ruin it for everyone else' (another complete lie). He was giving as good as he got.


I put rant in quotes because people were making it sound he used his entire post for the whole how-it-affected-him thing, rather than one sentence. That single sentence by itself was not the rant.

Yes, he was ridiculing Essen in his first post... as a response to Essen's previous post, not to the fact that Essen put up the codes. Essen isn't innocent in this case either, as he made quite a few jabs at Ruby as well throughout the topic and in fact made was the first one to do so of the two.

Also, would you mind linking me to the PSOW post about the cheating thing?

Anyways, I think we're just going around in circles at this point. We're not going to convince each other in either direction. I just wanted to put up my two cents on the matter because it bugged me but never intended for it to continue for as long as it has and I apologize for that. I'm just happy that despite the differences this small argument didn't actually devolve into a flame war and stayed as a reasonable argument, and appreciate that (keep in mind I post on GameFAQs most of the time, so it's a rarity for me to see an argument NOT turn into a flame war >.>)


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