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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:10 pm 
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We don't flame, we just call people dumb if we think they're dumb. Like Amaury

Btw how are promotional codes in this form meant to lengthen the game in any way? DLC lengthens the game by adding content, expansions lengthen the game for the same reason. Events lengthen the game by temporarily giving you something different to do. The codes you just pop in the ones you want and toss the rest away. It takes a few seconds to enter a code for an item that's essentially a gimmick. Codes that can be used by anyone for that matter, you dont need to do anything special for them other than happen to know what they are(in the case of unique codes, which would be admittedly impractical or impossible in this format, you might have to do something to obtain them so that would be very different IMO).

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:25 pm 
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Hmm, lengthening it might not have been the right word, sorry. Essentially it gives players incentive to continue playing the game as they'll need to wait as the items are released slowly. It's the same concept as you see in DQ9 and the Pokemon games (only those use download keys to unlock rather than passcodes).


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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:36 pm 
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If it was me I'd got bored of it and stopped playing... maybe play for an hour.. and stop again.
It wouldn't really keep me around while all the items aren't out...

Edit: Also I signed up in 2008.. and I've only now posted... how fun.


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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:36 pm 
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I don't know about DQ9, but Pokemon has a whole ecosystem around the games that brings even more money, so it makes a lot of sense to want people to keep pokemoning, whether it's games or other products of the brand.

On the other hand PSP2 doesn't have anything, once people have bought the game, SEGA's job is done until the next game. And releasing these items as password is actually more of a hassle to the players (you have to enter them manually, 82 of them, it's long and boring) compared to have them available in the game from the start. The DLC you'll never get does lengthen the game however, because of the new missions. And it's also a good way for SEGA to make money since some DLC items are paid at horribly high prices too.

It's really a wonder why SEGA doesn't do DLC in the US considering their aggressive stance about it in Japan. And it's not like they tried before and it didn't work because the market didn't accept that, nope, they never even tried.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:38 pm 
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We realize that 99% of you really want to support the series and are happy to do what you can, and that it's the 1% that ruin it for everybody. (As it's always been.)

It's unfortunate to see people in support of hacking and cheating because they 'stopped the drip-feed' that wasn't even a drip-feed in the first place. What they did do was kill off any hope of promoting this series elsewhere with those codes, so kudos to them for that - I hope you enjoy your fame... We did still get a major win on the community front by simply getting these items over to the west, and that's a victory that I don't think should be overshadowed by a couple cheaters.

And one posted afterwards on the official boards when Ruby removed the codes:

They [the codes] will be released in the future, but I don't want to let a single cheater ruin what we had planned with them.

I'll address these points here, myself:

I object to the use of the term 'cheater' not least because no actual cheating was involved (hacking in a general sense, yeah, ok). Secondly, the term 'cheater' carries certain unfortunate connotations, especially in a community as riven by cheating (the bad kind) as PSU.

That said, I'd like to categorically state that essen does not play the game, and while I do play PSP2 I play legit and I object to being tarred as a cheater. If you wish to label me for that, then I am also a cheater for the methods I have used to dump various pieces of information the community now takes for granted, with nary a complaint as to where the information comes from. This includes the information that these items, whose release is proving so controversial, existed in the first place in the US data.

Simply put, I'm not keen on being lumped in with people who cheat, destructively, by Ruby. Maybe he makes no distinction, but I certainly do.

I've no interest in ruining the game, and that's not essen's goal either, he simply disagrees with the way they do things. I respect that opinion. He also had other reasons (curiousity) for getting the data. Considering I've bought every major PS release since PSU (most of them in both Japanese and English), I'm not sure why I would set out to ruin the game. Perhaps I like wasting my money, who knows?

I happen to agree with Ruby that the release of these codes should not overshadow the fact that the items are in the game data in the first place. That is more than I expected from Sega and although it's but one small step towards the support the franchise deserves in the west it deserves a least a bit of praise. I believe that the idea that we have 'killed off' some great publicity opportunity is at best hyperbole and at worst an attempt to completely demonize us. If I felt it would be as damaging as people believe I would never have gone along with it.

The jibe about fame is laughable, especially from a guy who certainly seems to enjoy lapping up the attention he gets for posting good news, but mysteriously disappears when things go bad (he finally responded to the DLC question, why did he ignore it for so long?). Me and essen help to run a site that is on the proverbial lips of many people in the Phantasy Star community, we receive an impressive amount of traffic for our pains. Why on earth do we need more fame, or infamy?

I helped to found this site about 4 years ago (little more, maybe) as a place for people to collaborate on the provision of information, not as some pedestal to become internet-famous in a backwater community (you'd think I would have at least helped to found a WoW site or something). I believe I have given much to the site, and asked for very little in return - only the due credit the site receives. I've contributed to PSOW, after I was banned from the site, and never asked for anything in return except the credit everyone else receives (which I got, so fair play). I've certainly never abused my position for prestige or fame/infamy, and never would. It simply doesn't interest me.

If Ruby and his supporters think this was done for reasons of fame and attention whoring, they've done a really superb job of ensuring that we didn't get the attention we apparently crave so much.

The truth is, I've never really cared before about what the community thinks of me, and my time here as an active contributor is drawing to a close (for various reasons, completely unrelated to the code release). However, the venom that has been spewed as a result of this has left me considering whether now is the best time to call it quits - that's not to blame the people who have attacked me more than I should feel annoyed at them, since it was happening anyway... but I can read the Japanese wikis, so just who am I doing this for? The people who snatch with one hand as they slap me with the other?

Finally, I support the proper release of the codes as Sega planned, if they were going to have an effect before I believe they still will.

I guess I come off as angry, and I'm a little irritated, but on the other hand I did get a good bit of entertainment out of it. I'm not going to apologize for enjoying this, but at the same time I'm not going to apologize if I feel insulted, either.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:47 pm 
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Yeah the items being in the client at all was a lot more than I expected as well. Agreeing that this shouldn't be forgotten about in all the dorama

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:50 pm 
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Mewn wrote:
snip

tl;dr

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:52 pm 
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essen wrote:
Mewn wrote:
snip

tl;dr

oh u

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:00 pm 
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Now I can understand why you're frustrated. Ruby made a significant mistake by making those comments, and should have not made the cheater remark when he removed the codes from the psu board. He should've tried keeping as neutral as possible, even if he was personally annoyed at the cwhole ordeal. That just stirred up the hornet's nest, as is obviously seen now. However, I don't agree with both sides in this case simply because some of the comments here were just as ridiculous as Ruby's, and quite frankly the whole thing is just one huge mess.


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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:06 pm 
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I know you find parts of my reasons for doing it to be ridiculous (I also know SEGA isn't going to change its practices, I'm not stupid), but I find that doing nothing other than complaining and getting fucked over and over is more ridiculous than trying something. If you do nothing, nothing can change, and I wish more people understood this. I have no illusions about it though.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:12 pm 
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Mewn wrote:
We realize that 99% of you really want to support the series and are happy to do what you can, and that it's the 1% that ruin it for everybody. (As it's always been.)

It's unfortunate to see people in support of hacking and cheating because they 'stopped the drip-feed' that wasn't even a drip-feed in the first place. What they did do was kill off any hope of promoting this series elsewhere with those codes, so kudos to them for that - I hope you enjoy your fame... We did still get a major win on the community front by simply getting these items over to the west, and that's a victory that I don't think should be overshadowed by a couple cheaters.

And one posted afterwards on the official boards when Ruby removed the codes:

They [the codes] will be released in the future, but I don't want to let a single cheater ruin what we had planned with them.

I'll address these points here, myself:

I object to the use of the term 'cheater' not least because no actual cheating was involved (hacking in a general sense, yeah, ok). Secondly, the term 'cheater' carries certain unfortunate connotations, especially in a community as riven by cheating (the bad kind) as PSU.

That said, I'd like to categorically state that essen does not play the game, and while I do play PSP2 I play legit and I object to being tarred as a cheater. If you wish to label me for that, then I am also a cheater for the methods I have used to dump various pieces of information the community now takes for granted, with nary a complaint as to where the information comes from. This includes the information that these items, whose release is proving so controversial, existed in the first place in the US data.

Simply put, I'm not keen on being lumped in with people who cheat, destructively, by Ruby. Maybe he makes no distinction, but I certainly do.

I've no interest in ruining the game, and that's not essen's goal either, he simply disagrees with the way they do things. I respect that opinion. He also had other reasons (curiousity) for getting the data. Considering I've bought every major PS release since PSU (most of them in both Japanese and English), I'm not sure why I would set out to ruin the game. Perhaps I like wasting my money, who knows?

I happen to agree with Ruby that the release of these codes should not overshadow the fact that the items are in the game data in the first place. That is more than I expected from Sega and although it's but one small step towards the support the franchise deserves in the west it deserves a least a bit of praise. I believe that the idea that we have 'killed off' some great publicity opportunity is at best hyperbole and at worst an attempt to completely demonize us. If I felt it would be as damaging as people believe I would never have gone along with it.

The jibe about fame is laughable, especially from a guy who certainly seems to enjoy lapping up the attention he gets for posting good news, but mysteriously disappears when things go bad (he finally responded to the DLC question, why did he ignore it for so long?). Me and essen help to run a site that is on the proverbial lips of many people in the Phantasy Star community, we receive an impressive amount of traffic for our pains. Why on earth do we need more fame, or infamy?

I helped to found this site about 4 years ago (little more, maybe) as a place for people to collaborate on the provision of information, not as some pedestal to become internet-famous in a backwater community (you'd think I would have at least helped to found a WoW site or something). I believe I have given much to the site, and asked for very little in return - only the due credit the site receives. I've contributed to PSOW, after I was banned from the site, and never asked for anything in return except the credit everyone else receives (which I got, so fair play). I've certainly never abused my position for prestige or fame/infamy, and never would. It simply doesn't interest me.

If Ruby and his supporters think this was done for reasons of fame and attention whoring, they've done a really superb job of ensuring that we didn't get the attention we apparently crave so much.

The truth is, I've never really cared before about what the community thinks of me, and my time here as an active contributor is drawing to a close (for various reasons, completely unrelated to the code release). However, the venom that has been spewed as a result of this has left me considering whether now is the best time to call it quits - that's not to blame the people who have attacked me more than I should feel annoyed at them, since it was happening anyway... but I can read the Japanese wikis, so just who am I doing this for? The people who snatch with one hand as they slap me with the other?

Finally, I support the proper release of the codes as Sega planned, if they were going to have an effect before I believe they still will.

I guess I come off as angry, and I'm a little irritated, but on the other hand I did get a good bit of entertainment out of it. I'm not going to apologize for enjoying this, but at the same time I'm not going to apologize if I feel insulted, either.
All of this is true.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:18 pm 
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Quote:
Now I can understand why you're frustrated. Ruby made a significant mistake by making those comments, and should have not made the cheater remark when he removed the codes from the psu board. He should've tried keeping as neutral as possible, even if he was personally annoyed at the cwhole ordeal. That just stirred up the hornet's nest, as is obviously seen now. However, I don't agree with both sides in this case simply because some of the comments here were just as ridiculous as Ruby's, and quite frankly the whole thing is just one huge mess.

Such is drama, I suppose. Takes two to tango.

Ruby's reaction was bad though, for him anyway. He poked the hornet's nest and perpetuated this, which in the worst case scenario for him just publicized the codes even more. A more restrained damage control exercise (quiet requests to sites to take down the codes - not saying we would have agreed but it would have been in better faith then coming on and arguing with people he regards as attention-seeking trolls) would have been a more logical response. I'm not sure logic was driving Ruby at that point though.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:36 pm 
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Well in any case, it's still amazing that you managed to crack the passwords considering people have been at it since the demo, so well done for the technical feat.


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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:46 pm 
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Most of the demos passwords have been given by Penopata using my tools. Anyone could have done it on day one really, the only tricky part was computing all the md5s since they're stored as such, but there's only 10 million possible combinations so any recent computer gets all of them quite fast. 10 million md5s and associated item codes is around 4 GB of data, which takes a few seconds at worst to look into and find what you need. It's nothing big really, anyone trying would have done it.

I suppose the hard part was to understand the file formats but that work was done early 2010 for AOTI, and it turns out all the PSU games from v1 to PSP2 use the same format, but also a few other SEGA games, so you could just grab the tools and do it yourself on any game.

I'll probably check and see if the JP version got all their items released later when I get the time. First there's the performance issues of the wiki to fix.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:22 pm 
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For some reason... All I can see is "Pwn'd". Can a mod help me with this? D; I do not understand.


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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:23 pm 
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RubyEclipse wrote:
The first game didn't do near as well in the west, by a number comparison.


I'm sure that lack of DLC didn't have anything to do with this.

Not to mention, a lot of people in other regions bought the JP version because they already knew that non-JP versions would be vastly inferior due to Sega's track record for every single PS game since DC. Maybe including DC, I'm not well researched on the JP vs US versions of that game, so I won't speak for it personally.

So basically, the mistakes that made the first game not sell well were repeated for the sequel. Great idea.

Sega needs to take a cue from Capcom. They actually ask for (and listen to) their fans and customers. Other companies are starting to follow suit, and I think Sega should jump on that.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:38 pm 
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According to Clumsy, through their blogs, facebook updates, twitter releases, and fansite promotions, they would have reached a bigger audience for PSP2, because otherwise their blogs, facebook updates, twitter releases, and fansites never talk about PSP2.

My sole and only advice: make the current community happy and your community and sales will only grow! How many people have quit because all their friends have been fed up with SEGA's practices and yet still hope the next game will do better? Yeah, THAT many. It's up to SEGA to listen to their community and do something.

Hint: They won't. It would costs money in the short term. Oh god no not that please pleaaaase.

SEGA needs a long term strategy, not a short term money-grabbing scheme.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:48 pm 
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Cheap shots, ridiculous hyperbole. Still it's nice to know what Sega think of us.

Not even going to bother refuting such hysterical rantings.

The most insulting thing is how they pretend to give a rat's ass about us. Yeah, whatever. Oh well, there is no win, only slow degradation.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:45 am 
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I love how a thread about passwords became a rage fest lol


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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:46 am 
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essen wrote:
Isn't Valve a great example of community handling? Okay they have Steam NOW, but even before they were very straightforward with their community.


Well, I haven't touched it in awhile but Team Fortress 2 is still one of my favorites. Things have slowed down a bit recently, but the game gets a relatively big update every few months, free-of-charge. Funny story though, I actually got my first taste of the game from the Xbox 360 version of The Orange Box, which hasn't gotten any of that.

Do you see where I'm going with this? Stop me if any of this sounds... familiar. They were actually asked several times and did respond that it would come eventually, but aside from a few balance fixes and new settings, none of the content ever came. Simply put, and rather understandably, they decided supporting the game on that platform just wasn't worth their time, money, or effort. No one bothers asking about it anymore. I eventually caved myself and bought it the PC version myself during the Sniper vs. Spy sale, despite at the time only having a rather ill-equipped machine from 2004.

It's hardly the only thing that's irked me, either. I am definitely not saying their reputation is undeserved: I'm definitely still a big fan, but I guess my point is that if you're paying close enough attention, everybody disappoints. For another example:

Mvffin wrote:
Sega needs to take a cue from Capcom. They actually ask for (and listen to) their fans and customers. Other companies are starting to follow suit, and I think Sega should jump on that.


Just guess what's missing from the English versions of Monster Hunter. Also, do you happen to remember what happened with Clover Studio?


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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:58 am 
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Ah, I see. Well it makes sense, but not from the reasons you could guess. I've discussed this on #psu a few days/weeks ago, you probably missed it. Anyway it came off an interview with gabe from 2009 about that.

On PC, updating the game is essentially free. This is great because Valve can thus follow its gaming as a service business model. They get people to use Steam to play for free, and eventually people buy games on Steam and Valve makes money. Steam is an awesome platform too, of course, but the free games on there are the carrot to make everyone move in.

On 360, every time a publisher wish to update their game, they have to pay Microsoft. This doesn't fit with Valve's model because while they would indeed wish to update the game and for everyone to download for free, they would have to pay Microsoft. Considering the rate Team Fortress 2 is updated, they'd spend a fortune to get exactly nothing in return. Microsoft didn't want to discuss the terms and they couldn't get to an agreement, so the game died out. Blame Microsoft, but more generally all closed platforms, since they're no the only ones imposing unfair conditions.

Of course Valve could also pay, but a company can't legally intentionally lose money without any return, otherwise they get sued by their shareholders. Blame today's capitalism for that one.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:58 pm 
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First off, thanks for releasing these codes. For the most part, I couldn't find where they were even releasing them.

However, I think some of your anger(those who seemed pissed at sega) have maybe misplaced it somewhat. Right now sega has also released another game on PlayStationPortable called Valkyria Chronicles 2. For the last month they have released codes in a similar manner for the game, however they have been doing it officialy at the sega website(http://blogs.sega.com/usa/category/valk ... nicles-ii/). The code release has huge production value when compared to PSP2. And to top it off Sega is releasing a DLC pack at the end of september that adds a bunch of missions(and is a pay for DLC pack, not free). Not only that but a PSP2 save file unocks emillia percival as usable character whithin VC2, as well as adding two new missions to the game(where you can get emillia's staff and a saber as usable weapons).

What's in PSP2....a model of eidelwiess for your room. Wow, they must have spent millions on that. I think it comes down to who is working on the specific titles and not sega directly. Why would VC2 deserve any better of a roll out on psp when it has never even been on the system till now.

I say whoever handles PSP2 is just an idiot that lies to the higher ups so they don't get fired for such poor work.

Why is there such a huge disparity between two games titles on the same system by the same company, both released within just a few weeks of one another.


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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:06 pm 
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Different budgets.

Also note that I got a request to find the passwords for VC2 too, and didn't do it only because the general file format is different and I don't own a PSP to try myself on it. Though I don't really know VC or VC2 so that probably wouldn't have been shared with the whole world, or at the very least not by ourselves anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:22 pm 
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Adding DLC to the playstation network can't be that difficult though, as they are doing it for VC2. I stopped playing the first phantasy star portable because I beat the game and there was no reason to continue. who cares if I missed ultra rare drops, they were not needed to beat the game. At the time I was hoping for them to release the much more difficult DLC levels which never happened. Hell, I only purchased the new PSP2 because of what it unlocks in VC2. I'll probably just play PSP2 until I beat it in 20ish hours like the last one if no new content is released. The team that handles PSP2 is whats killing the game. If Phantasy star has a huge japanese budget I fail to see how that doesn't translate to western game players. When there is no advertising how do they expect a huge western response to a game.

I don't think the code release was bad, because no one knows that PSP2 is even there in the first place.


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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:30 pm 
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Now that you say this, did anyone ever try the PSP1 JP DLC missions on PSP1 like for PSP2?

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:58 pm 
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Is there a site to DL JP PSPo's DLC from like with PSP2? If so I can try loading it up in PSPo US when I get home from work.

..unless someone beats me to it

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:00 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:06 pm 
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Alright then. Consider it tested.. in like another 4 hours

I read someone mentioning on PSOW that PSPo had the ability to access DLC completely removed, but I'll find out the hard way

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:50 pm 
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Doesn't work, I tried it at the time when PSP1EN was released, they really removed that from the game's code, it's why I didn't even think of testing this with PSP2EN (silly me, thinking that they'd have actually put some effort into disabling something for PSP2 after the disaster the localization is).

I still didn't try PSP1JP DLC missions on PSP2 though, could be worth trying since the format appears to be identical (which, if it works, I'm sure will lead to several interesting situations and glitches, along with the possibility of custom missions being worked on and, god forbid, item hacking as a consequence).

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 Post subject: Re: PSP2 US Password list
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:21 pm 
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DarK-SuN wrote:
(silly me, thinking that they'd have actually put some effort into disabling something for PSP2 after the disaster the localization is)

I think in this case they actually intended to leave it in in the chance that they would release any DLC.

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